Source Code Project Mantis - FSSCP
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0001785FSSCPgameplaypublic2008-09-28 02:012009-04-22 13:25
Assigned ToGoober5000 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version3.6.9 
Target VersionFixed in Version3.6.10 
Summary0001785: Revision 4835 don't hide information when displaying ship callsign etc. breaks WC SAGA
DescriptionSF2_USE_ALT_NAME_AS_CALLSIGN was never meant to have anything to do with the target box. Neither was the alt-name supposed to be used as ADDITIONAL information in the target box.
It's original use was to replace the class name, and SF2_USE_ALT_NAME_AS_CALLSIGN was later added to be able to also use it as a message sender name.

The latest commit completely change the information in the target box and totally breaks Saga.

We extensively replace class names with alt-names like for our Ace ship classes or multiple versions of other classes.
We also replace some classes by "Unknown type" in some missions where we introduce new enemy ships.
The latest commit completely breaks that since it doesn't replace the class of the ship with alt-name anymore as soon as SF2_USE_ALT_NAME_AS_CALLSIGN is used. But since we use that for ALL enemy fighters, since we want the enemy ship class as the sender and not stuff like "zulu 1" or "Enemy Darket Wing 1 3" or somthing, this breaks the entire concept.

Please roll this back, this is bound to also break other mods that use both flags combined. Alt names should ALWAYS replace a ship's class in the target box. It's use as a callsign was JUST intended for messages, NOT the target box.
This breaks the entire mod. Not even renaming all classnames in our ships.tbl would fix this since even then we couldn't freely replace a classname by alt-name and use SF2_USE_ALT_NAME_AS_CALLSIGN at the same time for messages.
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Filespatch use_altnames_for_messages.patch (10,221) 2008-09-28 23:07
patch altnames_fix_and_hide_name_only_flag.patch (12,478) 2008-09-29 14:03
patch FRED_callsign_fix.patch (533) 2008-10-06 11:44
patch hash_filter_fix.patch (3,123) 2008-10-06 12:30
png screen0054.png (896,243) 2008-10-22 04:08
png screen0053.png (618,166) 2008-10-22 04:11

2008-09-28 02:26   
Well, you're thinking from a WCS-centric perspective. Including the callsign next to the target name is required for other mods that heavily use callsigns, such as BWO.

However I agree with the basic problem here. The alt name and the callsign are two fundamentally different fields that should not be conflated. I will look into fixing this tomorrow.
2008-09-28 11:13   
(Last edited: 2008-09-28 11:44)
This also doesn't include the info activated by Cmdline_targetinfo.
That one is still printed old style.

And you bet we see this from a Saga only perspective. I do not care one bit about what other MODs need if that new feature is totally breaking our MOD. This is a release blocker for us and I demand an immediate rollback of this until this can be implemented in a way that doesn't change current behavior,

If people want callsigns, then add a callsign to the ship structure and add a field to the ship editor dialogue.
But it can't be that you simply completely change the meaning of alt-names without even consulting us first to make sure that doesn't break anything, which it does.

It's true that it would be nice to have alt-name and callsign as two seperate informations, but right now that is not the case and you cannot simply change the usage of alt-names.
Besides. I thought you are in a code freeze and just bug fixing. I don't see what changing alt-names is going to fix. We only consider it an additional bug that will keep us from releasing.

2008-09-28 19:11   
Calm down. We need to consider all mods that use the SCP, not just WCS.

The original flag, "use alt name as callsign", means that the alt name no longer means an alt name: it means a callsign. That was a bad design decision, as we both agree. Obviously the temporary solution I committed yesterday was unacceptable. So I have redesigned the callsign feature to be completely independent of alt names. You should see a new "callsign" field on the ship editor dialog now.

And I have also fixed the -targetinfo feature to use the same information as the target box.

Finally, it's true that we're in a code freeze. That means we fix bugs: both functionality errors and (within reason) design problems. It does not mean we ignore problems.
2008-09-28 21:17   
Thanks for fixing this
2008-09-28 21:53   
(Last edited: 2008-09-28 22:39)
Just tested it. works ok except for one issue.

We usually used "use alt name as callsign" not just for callsigns.
We also used it to make enemy ships transmit messages with their class (alt-name which we typed in to be equal to the class) as prefix. Meaning:

"Dralthi MK4: Die, you furless freak!" or even
"Unknown type: Die, you furless freak!"

instead of

"Zulu 1: Die, you furless freak!"

So to make this really work we need that now missing flag back.
Maybe rename it to: use-altname-for-messages
In that case if a ship has a callsign and an alt-name AND this flag set, it should use the altname instead of the present callsign in messages.

Saga needs to be able to send message with shipname prefix, altname prefix and callsign prefix.

If you could add this small detail to this then it would be working fine for us again.

2008-09-28 23:07   
Suggested fix added
2008-09-29 00:47   
Actually I noticed that there is *already* a flag in the code which would solve this problem: hide-ship-name. If the ship name is hidden on the HUD, then it should be hidden in the messages also.

So I have committed a patch. Try it now.
2008-09-29 10:29   
(Last edited: 2008-09-29 13:04)
- The voice acting manager doesn't include this yet.
- If an alt-name is present that one should be used in the message instead of the class.
- Please increase the alt-names and callsign limit from 25 to 100 again.
25 is not enough, we are not using the callsigns yet, and will still run into that limit upon mission load. Even after changing everything to now use callsigns, we still extensively use alt-names, so please keep a higher limit here.

Also an additonal flag "hide-shipname-only" would be nice so that we can have ships that send messages with their callsign and have only the callsign in the target box:

F-27B Arrow

instead of

Alpha 2 (Sandman)
F-27B Arrow

This would be very useful for our enemy aces.
if you can implement that and correct above three issues we'll be happy with this change.

2008-09-29 14:03   
(Last edited: 2008-09-30 00:40)
I also noticed that the #-feature is not used for altnames and callsigns so I changed the code slightly to fix that, added alt-name usage to voice acting manager and introduces a "hide-shipname-only" flag that hides the name and keeps the callsign.
Patch attached

PS: Keep those limits this high (100). Saga will run into major problems if the limit it lowered

Edit: Check issue 0001786 in the process. Should be very easy to fix by replacing min by MIN

2008-09-30 19:50   
K, all fixed.
2008-10-01 11:27   
(Last edited: 2008-10-01 13:02)
This is NOT fixed.

You neither implemented alt-name usage instead of ship-class if present in messages and you also didn't implement the additional flag I asked you for, which Saga wants to use if this new behavior is going to stay.

I submitted a fully written out patch which implements all of the above.. use it or implement it on your own.

This is NOT fixed and it won't be untill everything above is implemented.

I'm beginning to really get pissed by the way SCP is supporting Saga

2008-10-05 17:30   
Your patch didn't account for all the possibilities, so I had to write my own.

You're right that the alt names didn't work in the voice acting manager. That was due to one small detail that I forgot to add; and they should work now.

I'll add the extra flag shortly.
2008-10-05 17:59   
Turns out an extra flag didn't need to be added. If a callsign is supplied AND hide-ship-name is checked, then only the callsign will be displayed.

So, everything in this report should now be fixed.
2008-10-06 02:03   
(Last edited: 2008-10-06 11:22)
FRED now doesn't show the callsigns in the ship editor for some ships. (Possibly for ships that have an alt-name already, haven't checked that)

2008-10-06 11:44   
(Last edited: 2008-10-06 11:54)
I think I found the problem.

Patch attached

Also callsigns, altnames and probably also shipclasses are still not #-filtered.
Neither in the target-box/info nor in the message-source.

2008-10-06 11:56   
You should double check the # filtering, because it works for both me and Tolwyn.

A screenshot would also help.

Also, your patch doesn't fix the FRED problem, but it does show me where the problem actually occurs. Thanks. :)
2008-10-06 12:08   
(Last edited: 2008-10-06 12:10)
I DID double check. (Also Tolwyn just told me he never tested this, so don't claim he did)

The FRED thing worked for me but I don't care how you fix it.

The callsigns, classes AND altnames however are NOT filterd. I DID double check this, I am right now compiling a new version with a fix of me and will upload a patch soon

2008-10-06 12:30   
Hash filtering fix added
2008-10-09 16:26   
This looks really close, should be able to get done by 3.6.10
2008-10-21 02:18   
Okay, update and compile a new build. See if you like this one any better.
2008-10-21 16:09   
Yes except one thing: The non-ship message source "#Sandman" should be written as "Sandman" by the Voice acting manager. Ingame it is displayed ok but the VAM still writes it as "#Sandman"
2008-10-21 17:36   
Ok. Easy change.

I think we can call this fixed. :)
2008-10-22 04:01   
Nope not fixed.. the new position of the Callsign is not acceptable. I didn't notice this on the first test.. Why on Earth did you move it to such an awkward position below the distance data??
2008-10-22 04:14   
(Last edited: 2008-10-22 04:16)
Just took a look. The callsign system does not work in the intended way. It still breaks HUD in Saga. I've attached two pictures for you to take a look.

Originally we had

Wing X
Alt name

for Confed ships and

empty line
Alt name

For Kilrathi ships.

With the new system a possible solution might look this way:

Wing X (Callsign (if exists)) OR Callsign (if hide ship name activated) OR empty line (if hide ship name activated)
Ship OR altname (if altname specified)

Then again, Diaspora (I talked to kara regarding this matter) and Saga would function better with the old system.

2008-10-22 04:17   
I think this system can work, and I actually liked the way it was with either
Shipname (Callsign)

in the first line, as it was until the last change.

Why on Earth did you move the Callsign into the Cargo section??
It looks horrible there
2008-10-22 20:32   
The multiplayer callsign has always been in that location, ever since FS1 was released in 1998. With the latest fix, the callsigns now use the multiplayer code, so as to be compatible with what players have come to expect.

You'll have to explain what's wrong with the pictures, and how the HUD is broken, because they look fine to me.
2008-10-23 02:45   
please read my last note, this solution is simply not acceptable.
2008-12-11 15:21   
I've looked at this and personally I think that the best solution is simply to move the callsign to the top of those of those four lines and move all the others down one.

Thus the section above the target box would now look like this

Callsign (if any)
Ship Name
Ship Class
Distance : Speed :

In the case of confed ships you would now get

Ship Name

and in the case of Kilrathi you'd get


Class/Alt Name

This change would actually make the callsign feature usable by Diaspora too. Cause at the moment it's virtually worthless to us as it is.

Yes it's a change from the way FS2 did it. But as far as I'm concerned FS2 did it wrong. In multiplayer you care much more about a ship's callsign than it's name cause what you care about most is if the ship is piloted by a human and who it is.

Besides it's such a minor change that I doubt most people would notice if you didn't tell them.
2008-12-11 16:02   
Tolwyn and I agreed on a solution a few weeks ago, but I haven't been able to implement it yet.

(I forget exactly what we decided. When I get back to this I'll have Tolwyn jog my memory.)
2008-12-11 16:31   
Maybe he could update everyone here? I know you're busy right now and if he posted what he wants done someone else could do it and save you the trouble so you can work on...other...stuff. :)
2009-01-19 15:55   
Okay, I talked to Tolwyn again today and we agreed on the "Ship name (Callsign)" format. It's now in SVN.
2009-03-25 12:22   
This is still not working correctly.

I wll have to do more testing to find all issues. But one issue:

Hide-ship-name should hide only the ship name and still display the Callsign (wihtout braces). However right now it hides both ship name AND callsign.
2009-03-25 22:41   
I have fixed that issue and emailed Tolwyn a test build. The fix is now in SVN.

Issue History
2008-09-28 02:01KeldorKatarnNew Issue
2008-09-28 02:17Goober5000Statusnew => assigned
2008-09-28 02:17Goober5000Assigned To => Goober5000
2008-09-28 02:26Goober5000Note Added: 0009730
2008-09-28 11:13KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009732
2008-09-28 11:44KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009732
2008-09-28 19:11Goober5000Note Added: 0009734
2008-09-28 21:17KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009735
2008-09-28 21:53KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009736
2008-09-28 21:54KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009736
2008-09-28 22:39KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009736
2008-09-28 23:07KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009737
2008-09-28 23:07KeldorKatarnFile Added: use_altnames_for_messages.patch
2008-09-29 00:47Goober5000Note Added: 0009738
2008-09-29 10:29KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009739
2008-09-29 10:29KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009739
2008-09-29 10:36KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009739
2008-09-29 10:36KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009739
2008-09-29 10:38KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009739
2008-09-29 13:04KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009739
2008-09-29 14:03KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009741
2008-09-29 14:03KeldorKatarnFile Added: altnames_fix_and_hide_name_only_flag.patch
2008-09-29 15:02KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009741
2008-09-29 15:02KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009741
2008-09-30 00:40KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009741
2008-09-30 19:50Goober5000Note Added: 0009750
2008-09-30 19:50Goober5000Statusassigned => resolved
2008-09-30 19:50Goober5000Resolutionopen => fixed
2008-09-30 19:50Goober5000Fixed in Version => 3.6.10
2008-10-01 11:27KeldorKatarnStatusresolved => feedback
2008-10-01 11:27KeldorKatarnResolutionfixed => reopened
2008-10-01 11:27KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009756
2008-10-01 13:02KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009756
2008-10-05 17:30Goober5000Note Added: 0009818
2008-10-05 17:59Goober5000Note Added: 0009820
2008-10-06 02:03KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009824
2008-10-06 02:04KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009824
2008-10-06 11:22KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009824
2008-10-06 11:44KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009826
2008-10-06 11:44KeldorKatarnFile Added: FRED_callsign_fix.patch
2008-10-06 11:54KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009826
2008-10-06 11:56Goober5000Note Added: 0009827
2008-10-06 12:08KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009828
2008-10-06 12:10KeldorKatarnNote Edited: 0009828
2008-10-06 12:30KeldorKatarnFile Added: hash_filter_fix.patch
2008-10-06 12:30KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0009829
2008-10-09 16:26chief1983Note Added: 0009909
2008-10-09 16:26chief1983Prioritynormal => high
2008-10-21 02:18Goober5000Note Added: 0010079
2008-10-21 16:09KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0010082
2008-10-21 17:36Goober5000Note Added: 0010085
2008-10-21 17:36Goober5000Statusfeedback => resolved
2008-10-21 17:36Goober5000Resolutionreopened => fixed
2008-10-22 04:01KeldorKatarnStatusresolved => feedback
2008-10-22 04:01KeldorKatarnResolutionfixed => reopened
2008-10-22 04:01KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0010093
2008-10-22 04:08TolwynFile Added: screen0054.png
2008-10-22 04:11TolwynFile Added: screen0053.png
2008-10-22 04:14TolwynNote Added: 0010094
2008-10-22 04:16TolwynNote Edited: 0010094
2008-10-22 04:17KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0010095
2008-10-22 20:32Goober5000Note Added: 0010098
2008-10-23 02:45TolwynNote Added: 0010104
2008-12-11 15:21karajormaNote Added: 0010395
2008-12-11 16:02Goober5000Note Added: 0010396
2008-12-11 16:31chief1983Note Added: 0010397
2009-01-19 15:55Goober5000Note Added: 0010544
2009-01-19 15:57Goober5000Statusfeedback => resolved
2009-01-19 15:57Goober5000Resolutionreopened => fixed
2009-03-25 12:22KeldorKatarnStatusresolved => feedback
2009-03-25 12:22KeldorKatarnResolutionfixed => reopened
2009-03-25 12:22KeldorKatarnNote Added: 0010768
2009-03-25 22:41Goober5000Note Added: 0010771
2009-04-22 13:25Goober5000Statusfeedback => resolved
2009-04-22 13:25Goober5000Resolutionreopened => fixed